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  • #8448
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    I was just looking at the excel sheet you’ve provided (the army tracker). In the section for Incarnates you list the Elixir. That is what it costs for Resurrection and not what they start the game with correct? In the army book it’s listed as Resurrection/Duel. What is the Duel part of that stat?

    #8449
    Avatar
    Universal Head
    Keymaster

    1) Yes.
    2) Yes.
    3) Correct. Duel refers to the number of Elixir points an Incarnate receives when he eliminates another Incarnate.

    #8562
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    Since the game is dead and we’re just playing at home I know this doesn’t really matter much but my OCD is forcing me to ask the question.

    There are lots of extra Incarnates for each army that never made it into the 4.0 Army books, though cards were released for all of them and we do have some information from supplements, which is fantastic, and thank you again for compiling everything.

    That said, it doesn’t look like there is information, beyond the Incarnates in the specific army books, that let us know what units these extra Incarnates are allowed to join.

    For instance, in the Wolfen army book it lets us know that Serethis can only join Hunter Units, or that Onyx can only join Fang units. But then there is the Incarnate Kassar or Ophyr who are only mentioned in the story portions of the 4.0 Army Book along with their stats/abilities in the supplement, but which Units can they join?

    I know it probably doesn’t matter since we’re only playing at home, but I was curious what you guys do in this instance? Allow these extras to join any unit?

    #8564
    Avatar
    Universal Head
    Keymaster

    Yes, I must admit I haven’t tackled this problem yet, but I suppose I would just use the existing incarnates as a guideline, seeing if you can find similar characteristics to give you an idea of which type of unit they would feel right with. Alternatively, you could just say they can join any unit!

    #15897
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    So I’ve dusted off my Confrontation stuff and re-acquainting myself with the rules and I have myself all turned upside down with Moral.

    I have a unit with a Fear value of 7 assaulting a until with a Fear value of 5.

    A Courage test is needed in this case since the unit with Fear 5 is lower than that of the unit with a Fear of 7. Correct?

    In this case is the action value 5 and the difficulty 7?
    Which is calculated as 5-7 = -2 Which means a 5+ needs to be rolled to pass the test via the Universal Table?

    —–

    Conversely, if it was the unit with Fear value of 5 assaulting the unit with Fear value 7 there would be no courage test because the unit being assaulted as a higher fear value?

    #15899
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    I think I figured it out and even though it’s unlikely many will read this I’m going to spell it out for my own good. 🙂

    Regardless of who initiated the assault between two units with a Fear value, a Courage test must be made (unless the Fear value for both units is equal, then no test is made).

    The difficulty is the highest Fear, while (and this is where I got confused) the action value is the highest Courage. Fear = Courage when it comes to a morale test. So the unit with the lowest Fear would be using that value as it’s Courage.

    So, in my example in my previous post, there would be a Courage test no matter what. If the unit with the lower Fear is the one making the assault (the active unit) they must take a Courage test. If they fail, they are in Rout and their turn ends immediately (nothing else happens, for now).

    **Aside**
    What happens the next time that unit activates is subject to interpretation I believe. Under Rallying the rules state at the beginning of it’s activation if unit is in Rout it makes a Courage/Fear test. But the rules also state under Unit in Rout that when a unit in Rout is activated it Flees (disengages if necessary).

    My best guess is that you first try to Rally upon that unit’s next activation and if you fail again your activation is to immediately Flee.

    Rallying: action value is the unit in Rout’s Fear/Courage and the difficulty is a default of 1 but can be increased by up to +4, (see Rallying section).

    Basically before being forced to Flee, you get a couple attempts to avoid it.
    **End Aside**

    The next time that unit activates they must make another Courage/Fear test, if they fail they now try to Flee (any engaged units are destroyed) and the unit moves twice its movement (in a straight line) towards the nearest table edge.

    They will continue to Flee each time they activate if they continue to fail their Courage test (taken at the start of each activation before continuing to Flee, called Rallying). If any fleeing movement takes any of the unit’s members off the board or into another enemy unit, the fleeing unit is completely destroyed.

    A unit that Rallys can take it’s turn normally (but is not considered to have resisted the enemy unit’s Fear).

    If the unit passes the original Courage/Fear test (called resisting) against the unit with the higher Fear, the activation proceeds normally and now automatically passes all courage tests against Fear values equal too or less than the one they have already resisted for the rest of the game.

    —–

    If the unit with the higher Fear value is the one making the assault, the unit being assaulted must make the same Courage test as described above. Pass or fail the assaulting unit still completes it’s activation, but depending on the result of the Courage test the unit with lower Fear may be in rout for it’s next activation.

    —–

    Back to the original example, regardless of which unit is the one assaulting the Difficulty in this instance is 7 (the highest Fear value) and the Action Value is the lower Fear of 5 (though in this instance that lower Fear value is considered to be the Courage value and is described as the highest Courage – yes that’s why this was so confusing).

    Action Value 5 – Difficulty 7 = -2

    Consulting the Universal Table of Resolution the unit passes the test on a 5+ roll of one die (2 dice, using the highest result on one die, if the unit contains the Company’s Commander). If the test is failed (see above sequence). If the test is passed, the passing unit no longer has to make a Courage test against Units with a Fear value of 7 or lower for the rest of the game.

    My goodness! LOL!
    I hope I have that all correct. My brain just melted. 🙂

    #15900
    Soulsorcerer
    Soulsorcerer
    Participant

    Does it help to say that I never warmed to the confrontation rules…today even less than back then. If the minis had not been so great I would have never bothered with them at all 🙂

    #15901
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    With the re-release GW’s Necromunda it really got me wanting to play a skirmish game again and after dumping way too much money into Confrontation years ago (while on clearance) it will hopefully sate the appetite. Goodness knows I don’t need to buy another minis game, not to mention how I dislike assembly and painting (of course that didn’t stop me from going all in with the Joan of Arc Kickstater). 🙂

    #15902
    Avatar
    8th
    Participant

    I dropped out of Joan of Arc at the last minute. Too much about it that I didn’t like and made enough mistakes on KS to make me wary.

    Recently assembled the Necromunda miniatures using plastic glue with a fine applicator. So easy to assemble compared to the likes of Warmachine. GW may be expensive, but they do seem to make assembly easy.

    #15903
    Avatar
    Universal Head
    Keymaster

    Hi nyys

    I read your description while looking at my summary, and I think it’s all relatively clearly explained in the summary. Do you think there’s anything missing, or could be better explained? For example, under Marale I start with “Fighters with the Fear symbol are frightening and use their Fear value to resolve any Courage tests they must make. All rules that apply to Courage apply to Fear.”

    Then later it says “During an assault involving a frightening unit:
    Action value = highest Courage. Difficulty = highest Fear in the frightening unit.”

    What do you think? My goal was to make the summary comprehensive enough that you never even have to refer to the original rules.

    #15907
    nyys
    nyys
    Participant

    The summary is great, there was one big item that was confusing me, it’s there in the rules and your Summary, which was concerning two frightening units in an assault. I couldn’t get past identifying the unit with the lower fear as now having the highest courage. The fear/courage interchange wasn’t clicking for me. Once it did, the entire process came crashing through.

    Definitely not a problem with the Summary.

    Lets call it user error. 🙂

    #15908
    Avatar
    Universal Head
    Keymaster

    It is quite confusing. Perhaps I can reword it somehow to make it clearer.

    Don’t get me started on the ritual/communion/miracle/spell terminology! 😉

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